Is it possible that Brigham Young, the man that BYU is named after, is not considered a prophet of the LDS church?
If he is no longer considered a prophet, is it possible that the entire church is based on a lie?
Is it possible?
http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/03/10991815-romney-dodges-question-on-mormonism
Tuesday, April 3, 2012
Sunday, April 1, 2012
Closed System
Everyone has a need to belong, its part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. When we belong to any social group, be it a family or an organization, we can often make rational decisions about how we think or feel within that system. An open system allows for logic, reason, and the sharing of emotions. A closed system does does not allow for dissent or expression of the individual.
http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/dbmormon.htm
There are 7 stages to a closed system and the emotions attached.
Stage 1: A question is asked to a presented problem, but no real answers are given. The result is anxiety.
If a person is looking to buy a home, they research; look at many options, ask lots of questions, bring in an appraiser, and feel satisfied they are getting what they are paying for. For many people this doesn't happen, however. A person has a loss, such as the loss of a child; and they feel vulnerable. In step the missionaries who give them hope. There is no real investigation into all religions or beliefs.
Stage 2: The agreement. The resulting emotion is ambiguity. This is also known as the Yes-But
*A person's patriarch blessing says they will get married and have lots of children. They can't conceive. They are told they will have children in the life here-after.
*A person is told if the pay tithing they will be blessed. They struggle financially. They are told their blessings are not of the material kind.
*A person develops cancer and receives a blessing that they will be healed. They continue to deteriorate. They are told they need to have more faith.
*A person is told if they wear their garments they will be protected. They are injured in a car accident. They are told the injuries would have been worse if they hadn't been wearing their garments.
*A person prays to have a testimony. They do not receive a burning in their bossom. They are told they need to pray more and have more faith.
When there is no direct answers, the result is
Stage 3: Identity Crisis. The resulting emotion is confusion and ambiguity.
... in order to become worthy, eventually, you must take an oath that all you own, including yourself, belongs to the Church; this is the hidden part of the meat of the original contract. Once received, the Church promises to give back to you, as a gift, that which you had formerly owned ... if you become worthy ... at some point in the unknown future.
This is a crucial stage; it is the wedge that opens the door to a the final voluntary loss of Identity. It begins with an insertion into the agreement of a "But." http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/2stage3.htm
Stage 4: The Double-bind. The resulting emotions are guilt and fear.
A promise was made back in stage one, but instead of being fulfilled, in stages two and three, a BUT was put in its place. Now there is an excuse for not receiving the promise. The burden is now put on the individual for not receiving the promise. They are made to feel guilty for not doing what they are supposed to do for not receiving the promise. They are made to feel fear if they do not hold up some end of a bargain to eternity to gain the promise.
This is the double bind; damned if you do and damned if you don't.
*IF you received a burning in your bosom, you now have to work to remain worthy of that; IF you don't work to retain that you will lose your reward and be damned.
IF you didn't receive the burning in your bosom, you don't have enough faith.
*IF you have sex before marriage, you are violating your body.
IF you don't have sex, you are evil, since you are commanded to have children.
*IF you speak of the temple oaths, you will be damned
IF you don't speak of them, are silenced by guilt and fear and are going against yourself.
*IF you educate yourself as a woman, as the D&C says, you are increasing in intelligence
IF you educate yourself as a woman, you are violating the counsel to only be a wife and mother
Boyd P. Packer said that reason is the enemy of God, and a state of war has been declared against it. He says, "In an effort to be objective, impartial, and scholarly, a writer or a teacher may unwittingly be giving equal time to the adversary... In the Church we are not neutral. We are one-sided. There is a war going on, and we are engaged in it." (From his talk: Do not spread disease germs!) The Closed System is "one-sided" (only non-brain faith is allowed). On the one hand, it turns its back on reason, the Open System; on the other hand, it claims "reason" in "lip service." The dual personality in Mormonism is the "Yes," reason, "But," at the same time, it is "non-reason." http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/stage4.htm
Stage 5: Denial. The resulting emotion is Humiliation.
There is no more individuality, only the body of the organization. There is no more unique thought, only the group think. There is no more questioning or critical thought. There is only silence, obedience and denial. Words like, 'paradise, new world order, Zion, the Elite, sacred not secret' are used.
But the leaders are only the man behind the curtain, pretending the something that they are not. There is a Zig to the Zag.
The Zig: The organization is family oriented. The Zag: If you leave the organization, then you leave the family behind, and you will lose your family forever.
The Zig: People feel they have a place to fit in when they join. The Zag: People who don't belong are ostracized and there's a feeling of elitism within the ranks of those within.
The Zig: The glory of god is intelligenge. The Zag: Don't look outside official sources for knowledge, they may be evil.
The Zig: faith is the essence. The Zag: Obedience above all else.
Stage 6: Accusation; we can never be good forever, so when we fail, it leads to the emotions of guilt and shame.
In other Christian religions, they believe that Jesus' grace covers sin; works do not get us into heaven. When it is our works that get us into heaven, it is up to us, the YES-BUT
When we fail to fully live up to the BUT part, the result is guilt and shame. It just isn't possible to do all that is asked.
There is a bait and switch. We are taught one thing in the church, (the bait) then an entirely different thing in the temple (the switch). Here is how one person presents it: "The first time I personally ever had doubts was when I went to the temple for the first time in the l980s. The whole concept of the temple was a great thing I thought at the time. Here I could be sealed to my family forever. Here I could help others who never had a chance to receive "ordinances" necessary for salvation receive them. When I actually went through to get my own endowment however, I was horrified by what went on, but I didn't say anything--similar to many Mormons. Not only was there nothing spiritual about the experience, the way the endowment is presented smells of cultism. You are instructed early on in the endowment that you can withdrawal rather than go through the ceremony. Of course no one withdrawals because you have no idea what is going to happen, you have your family and friends all sitting around you, and nothing has happened yet to incline anyone to withdrawal. The next thing you know, you have taken a series of vows in unison with everyone else which hardly resemble anything you normally do in your LDS experience. Before 1990, you also had extreme penalties or "bloody oaths" associated with the violation of any of these vows."
Post #12 http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/stage6.htm
http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/dbmormon.htm
There are 7 stages to a closed system and the emotions attached.
Stage 1: A question is asked to a presented problem, but no real answers are given. The result is anxiety.
If a person is looking to buy a home, they research; look at many options, ask lots of questions, bring in an appraiser, and feel satisfied they are getting what they are paying for. For many people this doesn't happen, however. A person has a loss, such as the loss of a child; and they feel vulnerable. In step the missionaries who give them hope. There is no real investigation into all religions or beliefs.
Stage 2: The agreement. The resulting emotion is ambiguity. This is also known as the Yes-But
*A person's patriarch blessing says they will get married and have lots of children. They can't conceive. They are told they will have children in the life here-after.
*A person is told if the pay tithing they will be blessed. They struggle financially. They are told their blessings are not of the material kind.
*A person develops cancer and receives a blessing that they will be healed. They continue to deteriorate. They are told they need to have more faith.
*A person is told if they wear their garments they will be protected. They are injured in a car accident. They are told the injuries would have been worse if they hadn't been wearing their garments.
*A person prays to have a testimony. They do not receive a burning in their bossom. They are told they need to pray more and have more faith.
When there is no direct answers, the result is
Stage 3: Identity Crisis. The resulting emotion is confusion and ambiguity.
... in order to become worthy, eventually, you must take an oath that all you own, including yourself, belongs to the Church; this is the hidden part of the meat of the original contract. Once received, the Church promises to give back to you, as a gift, that which you had formerly owned ... if you become worthy ... at some point in the unknown future.
This is a crucial stage; it is the wedge that opens the door to a the final voluntary loss of Identity. It begins with an insertion into the agreement of a "But." http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/2stage3.htm
Stage 4: The Double-bind. The resulting emotions are guilt and fear.
A promise was made back in stage one, but instead of being fulfilled, in stages two and three, a BUT was put in its place. Now there is an excuse for not receiving the promise. The burden is now put on the individual for not receiving the promise. They are made to feel guilty for not doing what they are supposed to do for not receiving the promise. They are made to feel fear if they do not hold up some end of a bargain to eternity to gain the promise.
This is the double bind; damned if you do and damned if you don't.
*IF you received a burning in your bosom, you now have to work to remain worthy of that; IF you don't work to retain that you will lose your reward and be damned.
IF you didn't receive the burning in your bosom, you don't have enough faith.
*IF you have sex before marriage, you are violating your body.
IF you don't have sex, you are evil, since you are commanded to have children.
*IF you speak of the temple oaths, you will be damned
IF you don't speak of them, are silenced by guilt and fear and are going against yourself.
*IF you educate yourself as a woman, as the D&C says, you are increasing in intelligence
IF you educate yourself as a woman, you are violating the counsel to only be a wife and mother
Boyd P. Packer said that reason is the enemy of God, and a state of war has been declared against it. He says, "In an effort to be objective, impartial, and scholarly, a writer or a teacher may unwittingly be giving equal time to the adversary... In the Church we are not neutral. We are one-sided. There is a war going on, and we are engaged in it." (From his talk: Do not spread disease germs!) The Closed System is "one-sided" (only non-brain faith is allowed). On the one hand, it turns its back on reason, the Open System; on the other hand, it claims "reason" in "lip service." The dual personality in Mormonism is the "Yes," reason, "But," at the same time, it is "non-reason." http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/stage4.htm
Stage 5: Denial. The resulting emotion is Humiliation.
There is no more individuality, only the body of the organization. There is no more unique thought, only the group think. There is no more questioning or critical thought. There is only silence, obedience and denial. Words like, 'paradise, new world order, Zion, the Elite, sacred not secret' are used.
But the leaders are only the man behind the curtain, pretending the something that they are not. There is a Zig to the Zag.
The Zig: The organization is family oriented. The Zag: If you leave the organization, then you leave the family behind, and you will lose your family forever.
The Zig: People feel they have a place to fit in when they join. The Zag: People who don't belong are ostracized and there's a feeling of elitism within the ranks of those within.
The Zig: The glory of god is intelligenge. The Zag: Don't look outside official sources for knowledge, they may be evil.
The Zig: faith is the essence. The Zag: Obedience above all else.
Stage 6: Accusation; we can never be good forever, so when we fail, it leads to the emotions of guilt and shame.
In other Christian religions, they believe that Jesus' grace covers sin; works do not get us into heaven. When it is our works that get us into heaven, it is up to us, the YES-BUT
When we fail to fully live up to the BUT part, the result is guilt and shame. It just isn't possible to do all that is asked.
There is a bait and switch. We are taught one thing in the church, (the bait) then an entirely different thing in the temple (the switch). Here is how one person presents it: "The first time I personally ever had doubts was when I went to the temple for the first time in the l980s. The whole concept of the temple was a great thing I thought at the time. Here I could be sealed to my family forever. Here I could help others who never had a chance to receive "ordinances" necessary for salvation receive them. When I actually went through to get my own endowment however, I was horrified by what went on, but I didn't say anything--similar to many Mormons. Not only was there nothing spiritual about the experience, the way the endowment is presented smells of cultism. You are instructed early on in the endowment that you can withdrawal rather than go through the ceremony. Of course no one withdrawals because you have no idea what is going to happen, you have your family and friends all sitting around you, and nothing has happened yet to incline anyone to withdrawal. The next thing you know, you have taken a series of vows in unison with everyone else which hardly resemble anything you normally do in your LDS experience. Before 1990, you also had extreme penalties or "bloody oaths" associated with the violation of any of these vows."
Post #12 http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/stage6.htm
Stage 7: Punishment. The resulting emotion is subjection/compulsion.
If a member feels the compulsion to leave the group, the result will be shaming that member by telling them they have sinned, they will never know happiness, they will not be a part of the group.
Abandonment, depression, suicide for not conforming are common.
Stage 8: Voluntary Union: Love/Hate is the resulting emotions.
If acceptance of the group is the result, the brain washing is the result and a person loses their individuality for good.
Stage 9: Cannibalism. The resulting emotion is suicide.
This is the most real quote: "The LDS church claims to be led by men of God. They are supposed to receive direct revelation from Him. Yet this is a church that turns away from the needs of both its men and its women, a church that will not acknowledge the child abuse/incest that goes on between some of its members--abuse that destroys children and steals their childhood, that creates wounds they carry the rest of their lives. Women in the church--some women, by no means all--are just as scarred and scared, just as abused. Yet those in authority will not deal with these issues. Nor will they deal with women who feel it extremely unfair that they are still to be "subservient" to their husbands, that they are not equal to their husbands, not even in the eyes of the LDS God. Mormonism is a patriarchy. For some, this is an acceptable way to live. For others, it's a torture chamber. Their treatment of homosexuals seeking help is appalling. While I am not gay, I was involved with a gay member of the church, and the hell he was put through--even as he begged for help--was appalling. Instead of self-acceptance for EVERY member, the church teaches conditional love ... To claim that it's God's will that people be hurt this way is emotionally, mentally and spiritually abusive."
Post #69 See: Stages 2-3, 4, 5. #69.
http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/stage9.htm
Fear and shame and guilt are no way to run an organization.
Love and acceptance and an open system.
Tuesday, March 27, 2012
No more subjugating!
Jimmy Carter recently announced his departure from his long held religious organization due to its treatment of women. He, like so many of us, tried to bring change from within, but found its leaders entrenched in dogma and traditions counter to the health of equality, unconditional love and fairness.
When it is impossible to bring change from within an organization and a person finds their morals, values, dignity and ideals being compromised by staying, then the only choice is to leave. I understand this only too well.
Here is a quote from Jimmy Carter:
The truth is that male religious leaders have had -- and still have -- an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world. http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/20/jimmy-carter-leaves-church-over-treatment-of-women/
I hope more people, from all religious groups that subjugate women; stand up and leave. It is the only way to let them know that we are mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore!
When it is impossible to bring change from within an organization and a person finds their morals, values, dignity and ideals being compromised by staying, then the only choice is to leave. I understand this only too well.
Here is a quote from Jimmy Carter:
The truth is that male religious leaders have had -- and still have -- an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world. http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/20/jimmy-carter-leaves-church-over-treatment-of-women/
I hope more people, from all religious groups that subjugate women; stand up and leave. It is the only way to let them know that we are mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore!
Thursday, March 22, 2012
Ten Issues
This is an excellent video that explains ten issues with the church:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw&feature=youtu.be
Here is a brief summary:
1. Virtually all information about the church comes from the church itself
2. The Book of Abraham--contradictions with Egyptologists
3. The first vision--major contradictions and historical inaccuracies
4. The Book of Mormon
5. The temple-- history and changes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw&feature=youtu.be
Here is a brief summary:
1. Virtually all information about the church comes from the church itself
2. The Book of Abraham--contradictions with Egyptologists
3. The first vision--major contradictions and historical inaccuracies
4. The Book of Mormon
5. The temple-- history and changes
Saturday, March 17, 2012
Perfection?
In the mormon church, we were told, 'be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect.'
Even though we were told this was not to be something to be achieved in this life, everyone still expected everyone else to pretend to be perfect.
The definition of what it meant to be perfect was also very narrowly defined.
A young man named Henry who lived in California tried so desperately to be perfect. But you see, he was also gay. You can't be gay and perfect in the mormon church. He tried so hard to change being gay. He couldn't, so he did what so many other gay youth in the mormon church are doing-- he committed suicide. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1975981914/a-stranger-at-the-table-why-god-hates-gay-mormons
Although I cannot completely understand his struggle, since I have never questioned my sexual orientation, I do understand his struggle with the concept of trying to be perfect, and especially such a narrow view of what perfection is; and if you can't be perfect, pretend to be something that you are not.
Not being your authentic self, leads to frustration, disappointment in yourself, a life of sadness and unhappiness. Like so many people discover, it leads to suicide or attempts at suicide.
I know how it feels to strive for perfection and always failing; never being good enough for the church or your family; always trying to be someone you are not and feeling as though your authentic self is not good enough for the church, your family or god.
The mantra to be perfect is at odds with loving yourself and others.
Even though we were told this was not to be something to be achieved in this life, everyone still expected everyone else to pretend to be perfect.
The definition of what it meant to be perfect was also very narrowly defined.
A young man named Henry who lived in California tried so desperately to be perfect. But you see, he was also gay. You can't be gay and perfect in the mormon church. He tried so hard to change being gay. He couldn't, so he did what so many other gay youth in the mormon church are doing-- he committed suicide. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1975981914/a-stranger-at-the-table-why-god-hates-gay-mormons
Although I cannot completely understand his struggle, since I have never questioned my sexual orientation, I do understand his struggle with the concept of trying to be perfect, and especially such a narrow view of what perfection is; and if you can't be perfect, pretend to be something that you are not.
Not being your authentic self, leads to frustration, disappointment in yourself, a life of sadness and unhappiness. Like so many people discover, it leads to suicide or attempts at suicide.
I know how it feels to strive for perfection and always failing; never being good enough for the church or your family; always trying to be someone you are not and feeling as though your authentic self is not good enough for the church, your family or god.
The mantra to be perfect is at odds with loving yourself and others.
Tuesday, February 28, 2012
Perception
When I was a child, I was put in a program where a college student worked with me once a week. I don't know why I was put in this program or what the purpose was. I was very shy, I suppose she was supposed to help me with my shyness, I don't know; this isn't really the point.
One day, she took me to her apartment and fixed me some Tang. I didn't know what Tang was, I only knew that I had never tasted it before since my Mom never bought it for our family. I had somehow gotten the impression that if my Mom didn't buy it for our family, it was bad and wrong. I told the college student I couldn't drink it because it was bad for me. She was incredulous and asked what was bad about it. I couldn't tell, her, only that my Mom never bought it.
I realize now, that I had put it in the same category as tea and coffee and cigarettes and alcohol. Why? Because of the mind of a child; if my family didn't consume it, it must be bad for you. I perceived it as bad because it wasn't in our home.
I grew up in a church that taught me that drinking tea and coffee and wine is bad for you. They placed a value on it that I accepted because they told me to. Even when I would read things in the news that contradicted what I was told, my perceptions didn't change.
Then one day, I grew up and decided that I was capable of changing my perceptions. As I opened my mind to different perceptions, I read and studied and learned that it was okay to value things differently than what I was taught as a child.
I changed my perceptions.
I was told by those in my former religion that I was a sinner.
I told them no, I had only changed my perceptions.
One day, she took me to her apartment and fixed me some Tang. I didn't know what Tang was, I only knew that I had never tasted it before since my Mom never bought it for our family. I had somehow gotten the impression that if my Mom didn't buy it for our family, it was bad and wrong. I told the college student I couldn't drink it because it was bad for me. She was incredulous and asked what was bad about it. I couldn't tell, her, only that my Mom never bought it.
I realize now, that I had put it in the same category as tea and coffee and cigarettes and alcohol. Why? Because of the mind of a child; if my family didn't consume it, it must be bad for you. I perceived it as bad because it wasn't in our home.
I grew up in a church that taught me that drinking tea and coffee and wine is bad for you. They placed a value on it that I accepted because they told me to. Even when I would read things in the news that contradicted what I was told, my perceptions didn't change.
Then one day, I grew up and decided that I was capable of changing my perceptions. As I opened my mind to different perceptions, I read and studied and learned that it was okay to value things differently than what I was taught as a child.
I changed my perceptions.
I was told by those in my former religion that I was a sinner.
I told them no, I had only changed my perceptions.
Sunday, February 26, 2012
Communication Styles
How to communicate; lesson I
When they ask a question, give an answer or ask a question if unsure of what is asked.
lesson II
When they make a statement, listen.
lesson III
When they give an opinion, respect it.
lesson IV
When they cry, act upset, nervous, ask questions to discover why.
lesson V
When a problem arises, look for solutions.
How to create barriers, lesson I
When they ask a question, demand what they are asking or tell them they are wrong for asking a stupid question or call them names.
lesson II
When they make a statement, tell them they are wrong for making such a stupid or erroneous statement, roll your eyes.
lesson III
When they give an opinion, show contempt for their opinion and demean it, walk away, show disgust.
lesson IV
When they cry, act upset, nervous; fold your arms, turn your head away, cross your legs, walk out on them.
lesson V
When a problem arises, show anger for your partner and let them know that the problem is theirs alone to solve or blame them.
If you want to assure a divorce, the best way is negative communication styles: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-hughes/why-do-happy-newlyweds-ev_b_1269205.html?ref=divorce
Here is the best quote from the article: "Although there were no differences in the degree of positive communication, there were notable differences in negative communication patterns. Couples who eventually divorced displayed more anger and contempt for their partners. When solving problems, they were more likely to disagree, and blame and invalidate the feelings of each other."
This was the single most defining moments in what led to my divorce. I was tired of being marginalized, walked out on, being told that every problem was mine alone to be solved, and that my emotions didn't count.
When they ask a question, give an answer or ask a question if unsure of what is asked.
lesson II
When they make a statement, listen.
lesson III
When they give an opinion, respect it.
lesson IV
When they cry, act upset, nervous, ask questions to discover why.
lesson V
When a problem arises, look for solutions.
How to create barriers, lesson I
When they ask a question, demand what they are asking or tell them they are wrong for asking a stupid question or call them names.
lesson II
When they make a statement, tell them they are wrong for making such a stupid or erroneous statement, roll your eyes.
lesson III
When they give an opinion, show contempt for their opinion and demean it, walk away, show disgust.
lesson IV
When they cry, act upset, nervous; fold your arms, turn your head away, cross your legs, walk out on them.
lesson V
When a problem arises, show anger for your partner and let them know that the problem is theirs alone to solve or blame them.
If you want to assure a divorce, the best way is negative communication styles: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-hughes/why-do-happy-newlyweds-ev_b_1269205.html?ref=divorce
Here is the best quote from the article: "Although there were no differences in the degree of positive communication, there were notable differences in negative communication patterns. Couples who eventually divorced displayed more anger and contempt for their partners. When solving problems, they were more likely to disagree, and blame and invalidate the feelings of each other."
This was the single most defining moments in what led to my divorce. I was tired of being marginalized, walked out on, being told that every problem was mine alone to be solved, and that my emotions didn't count.
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